Hellbound Alleee Radio Show

Hellbound Alleee Radio Show

5/6/06

Guests: Aaron Kinney and Ray Comfort

Alleee: On the line with us again is our good friend, Aaron Kinney. How’re you doing, Aaron?

Aaron: Doing really good.

Alleee: And our special guest today is Mr. Ray Comfort. Hello, Ray!

Ray: Thank you for calling me a “special guest.”

Franc and Alleee: [Laughing]

Ray: It makes me feel special.

Alleee: Okay, well… Ray, if you don’t already know, and I know most of our listeners do, is an evangelist from New Zealand- Christchurch, I believe, originally. And he heads up Living Waters Publications. He’s paired up with the hunky “Growing Pains” star Kirk Cameron in Way of the Master Ministry- that’s hot- and he has written over fifty books according to his Wikipedia article. And those books include “God Doesn’t Believe in Atheists,” “How to Bring Your Children to Christ and Keep Them There,” and “Hell’s Best-Kept Secret,” which is another interesting-sounding book, I think- what’s the secret-

Franc: [Laughing] You wanna-

Alleee: Central air? Great pizza place? Yes?

Ray: There’s another book I’ve written called, “101 Things Husbands Do to Annoy Their Wives.”

Alleee: Yes, I heard about that one too.

Ray: My wife helped me write it in ten months.

Franc: That is- yeah, that’s what I was gonna say- that is such an easy-

Alleee: I think a lot of us wives could probably put out a book like that.

Franc: Come on, that’s too easy, Ray.

Ray: [Laughing]

Franc: Seriously.

Alleee: Okay, well, I read… I read the Wikipedia article, and according to the article, Ray- you’re a born-again Christian of course, but culturally actually, you’re Jewish.

Ray: Yeah.

Alleee: So… did you… break your mother’s heart, did you stab her through the heart when you left the religion?

Ray: No, not at all. She doesn’t even- she [laughing] hardly knows who Moses is. So she’s not that Jewish, just Jewish by… by birth.

Alleee: So it’s just a culturally Jewish- so you guys didn’t go to Temple or anything like that?

Ray: No, not at all. I just had “Methodist” put on my birth certificate because my parents were afraid- they’d been in the Holocaust, I was born after the Second World War- so there was nothing religious about it at all.

Aaron: So it was more like a- like a secularized kind of upbringing and then you found- you found Christ later on in life?

Ray: He found me, yeah.

Aaron: Oh, he found you.

Ray: Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely nothing… nothing religious at all about that.

Aaron: And… so… so the most recent book you said you had out was the on that was “101 Things Husbands Do to Annoy Their Wives?”

Ray: No, that’s one I put out a while ago, the most recent one is called… “Evolution Versus Intelligent Design,” and its letters to an atheist-

Aaron: Oh…

Ray: -a wonderful… incredible amount of writing back and forth to an atheist and… he puts his side up and my side and we leave it up to the reader to make their own conclusion, but… it’s a wonderful book. It’s called, “Intelligent Design Versus Evolution” and it’s just come out.

Aaron: Great, great. Yeah, I think I saw- I think I saw that on Amazon, too. That is one of the most recent ones. It must have- did it just come out in 2006, or did it come out last year?

Ray: It’s just come out in 2006… two weeks ago.

Aaron: Okay. Great, great, great. So… so you- you like to bring people closer to God and help them find Jesus Christ because you’re… you’re an evangelist, right?

Ray: Well, I don’t like that term at all.

Aaron: Oh, you don’t?

Ray: No, I’d like to shake it off. The word “evangelist” was sort of tainted during the 80’s with all the horrible televangelists with their money-grabbing television programs. So I just don’t like that term. I just call myself an “author.”

Aaron: Oh, okay. Makes sense. [Laughs] Now, I was listening recently to the Rational Response Squad when you were on their show, and those were- those were great interviews and stuff, by the way. And… I remember you mentioned on that- you were talking with Brian, right? And you said that more than- more than half of the self-professed Christians are actually false Christians or not really Christians…?

Ray: Well, what I said was just that… a lot of people do a lot of things to offend a lot of people in the name of Christianity. You can start a Christian Nazi party if you want, and noone’s going to stop you, and you’re going to slur the name of Christianity, so there’s a lot of dirty bathwater out there and… there’s a lot of them and there’s a lot that don’t. They’re hypocrites, and it’s horrible.

Aaron: Hmm. Interesting. So- I guess not everyone that says they’re a Christian or claims to be necessarily is, but you know, also a good number of them are, right? So it’s kind of a… maybe a mixed bag, more or less?

Ray: Yeah, I think that the number is much lower than anyone estimates.

Aaron: Oh. Yeah, yeah. Well, and there’s also something else- One of the books that you wrote was called I believe, “God Does Not Believe in Atheists,” right?

Ray: Yeah.

Aaron: So… do you come from the position that atheists don’t really exist?

Ray: Yeah! Absolutely.

Aaron: Okay. So… is it one of those things where- stop me if I’m wrong here, but I imagine that the argument probably goes along the lines of like everyone in their hearts, knows that God is real, right? And so when someone claims to be an atheist, they’re- they’re lying, either lying to themselves or the people that they claim… that they claim their atheism to, right? Because deep down in their hearts they know that- they supposedly know that God is real.

Ray: Well, there are good reasons, two reasons for that. We all have a conscience and the word “conscience” means “with knowledge,” the word “science” is “knowledge.” So there’s innate knowledge that tells us there’s a God that we deny. And the second thing is, there cannot be any such thing as an atheist, because for an atheist to be a genuine atheist he must be omniscient. And by that I mean, if I said to you, “There are no diamonds in Missouri.”

Aaron: Uh-huh.

Ray: Okay, by saying that there are no diamonds in Missouri, what do I need for that to be true? Well, I need to know what’s on every hand, in every rock, in every river bed, every jewelry case, every jewelry store, I’d need to have absolute omniscient knowledge to know that there’s no diamonds in Missouri.

Alleee: Um, can I interrupt here, because I know your argument, I’ve read it on answers.net…

Ray: Yeah.

Alleee: And I understand the argument is… for you to know there’s no God, you have to look everywhere in the Universe, and since nobody knows everything, then how could you possibly know there isn’t a God, right?

Ray: Yeah, that’s what I said.

Alleee: Well, okay, so doesn’t that mean that there’s no such thing as a monotheist? Because after all, I mean, you don’t know everything-

Ray: [unintelligible]

Alleee: -I said, if you believe in one god, how do you know that there aren’t other gods? Because after all, we’re both atheists.

Ray: [unintelligible]

Alleee: We’re both atheists.

Ray: [unintelligible]

Alleee: Well okay, see- that’s the thing- let me finish my thought here, because…

Ray: Yeah, sure.

Alleee: Like, okay. [laughing] I feel like monotheists are very much like atheists because they- we all don’t believe in all gods except for one. So I mean, if- if you’re going to use the logic-

Franc: One or zero.

Alleee: If you’re going to use the logic that if you can’t know that there aren’t other gods in the Universe, it’s really basically an argument saying that we have to believe in everything. Because obviously we don’t know that anything that we possibly make up to believe in- you know, Rama, the sleeping giant Vishnu, how do we know that he doesn’t exist if we haven’t-

Franc: Santa Claus.

Alleee: -we haven’t gone to Missouri and looked for the diamonds there, you know?

Ray: That’s a good- a real good question. Well, there’s one way to find out that’s very subjective, but ask him.

Alleee: Well see, no, who do you know to ask? I mean, you can ask the one god you believe in but… but how do you know that- [laughing] that you’re not asking the wrong guy?

Ray: Well, just let me explain it. Here’s the problem. John 14:21, Jesus says, “he that knows my commandments and keeps them, he that loves me will be loved by my Father, and will reveal myself to them.” So if you say to me, “How do I know if electricity is real, I can’t hear it, see it, smell it, taste it, or touch it?” And I say, “Here’s a fork, stick it up that light socket-”

Alleee: Actually, electricity is very easy to detect.

Franc: Wait, wait, wait, Ray. I thought we aren’t supposed to test God. What happened to that?

Ray: Well, there’s a difference between testing God and proving him.

Franc: Ohhhh.

Ray: The Bible makes that very clear. In fact, God himself is proving now, praise the Lord. So you can experience the power of God in your life if you’re willing to do what he says. If you don’t do what he says, you won’t know he exists.

Franc: Hmm.

Ray: If you do what he says, he’ll reveal himself to you but this is what- this is the problem- “If you seek me with your whole heart, you’ll find me.”

Alleee: Yeah.

Ray: If you don’t come with humility, God resists the proud- he only gives grace to the humble-

Alleee: That’s great, but basically you’re telling me… in order to believe in God you have to believe in God. But I’m and atheist, so…

Ray: Yeah, but I’m not talking about believing in God. There’s a difference. I believed in God before I was a Christian. I’m talking about coming to know God personally.

Franc: Ohhh.

Alleee: So you don’t know that there aren’t other gods, I mean- actually in the Old Testament it seems like he was referring to a lot of other gods and just saying, “Well, you shouldn’t worship them.” You know, I mean a lot of ancient Jews were polytheists as well- we don’t know that there are no leprechauns, but we at least… with leprechauns and diamonds in Missouri and gold in China- we know what we’re looking for. We know what gold is, we know what Missouri is, we know what China is, we know what electricity is- we can feel electricity, you know, but-

Ray: What is electricity?

Alleee: We don’t really know what God is, I mean- where do I look?

Ray: What is electricity?

Aaron: Electricity is a function of charged particles in the form of electrons that are moving between… moving between atoms, typically. Like the electrons being passed through the copper molecules inside a copper wire.

Ray: So what if I said I didn’t believe in electricity because I’ve never seen it? What would you say to me?

Alleee: Lightning.

Aaron: Well, I would say there’s other ways to detect it than just the visual senses.

Ray: So how do you detect electricity?

Aaron: Uhhh… well, you can- you can, first of all you can watch a lightning storm-

Alleee: Stick your finger in a light socket.

Aaron: -touch your tongue to a 9-volt battery, and you can get- you can experience-

Alleee: You can rub a balloon on your hair.

Aaron: -the current flowing on a Tesla coil or lightning bolt. You can also feel it-

Alleee: You can drag your feet across the carpet.

Aaron: -touch your tongue to a 9-volt battery or something like that, and you’ll get that little shock.

Ray: Well, that’s what I did! Thirty-four years ago, I touched my tongue to a 9-volt battery, I was converted by the power-

Alleee: Did you actually touch your tongue to a 9-volt battery and Jesus came?

Ray: No, that was just a metaphor.

Alleee: But see, what did you do?

Ray: I’m trying to describe what happened. I was transformed, I experienced the power of God, became a new person, my sins were forgiven, and- and then, those that don’t believe in electricity, you say, “Go look, and experience it for yourself.” It’s the same for the power of God.

Alleee: Okay, well… if you experience- sorry.

Aaron: -question about- you were going to say something, Alleee?

Alleee: I was just saying if you experience Jesus, I mean- don’t you have to kind of believe in Jesus first of all? Because if you were born in India or something, you might have experienced the transforming power of Buddha.

Ray: That’s true. I’ve just been to India and spoken to hundreds and hundreds of Indians that just love the Lord and have trust for Jesus.

Franc: Praise the Lord.

Ray: It happens everywhere.

Franc: Praise the Lord.

Aaron: Well, I have got a question for you Ray.

Ray: Sure.

Aaron: The argument that you can’t… you can’t logically claim to be an atheist because you don’t have knowledge of the Universe…

Ray: Yeah.

Aaron: Would it be logical on the same vein for me to say that Santa Claus doesn’t exist, or maybe that… that pink space unicorns don’t exist? Would you get on the same boat and say, “Well, Aaron, you can’t really say that Santa Claus and space unicorns don’t exist although we haven’t seen them- you don’t have knowledge of everything everywhere.” Shouldn’t we be- should we be open by default to the possibility of all these things that we can think of existing in the Universe just because we haven’t been everywhere?

Ray: No… there’s a huge difference. First, the Creation testifies that there is a Creator. You cannot have a Creation without a Creator.

Franc: You know, that’s so true.

Alleee: Well, yeah, of course not. If it’s a Creation.

Ray: And so, what I’m talking about is not your belief in God, I’m talking about your eternal salvation. If you don’t repent and trust in the Savior, God’ll give you justice on the Day of Judgement. So your eternal welfare depends on what you do and your obedience to God. Whether or not you believe in Santa Claus, it doesn’t make any difference in your life at all.

Franc: Amen.

Ray: And so that doesn’t make a difference, but your salvation depends on what you do with God’s relationship.

Alleee: That’s interesting.

Franc: That’s so true.

Alleee: That’s interesting because I was raised to believe that you… what you did had no bearing on it, it was depending on God’s grace whether you were a part of the chosen group of people…

Ray: You were Jehovah’s Witness or something?

Alleee: No, I was Presbyterian. It’s called “Calvinism.”

Ray: Oh, yeah, well that- we call that “Hyper-Calvinism.” The Bible makes it clear, “Whosoever will may come,” and so you’ve not got the problem that it’s not exclusive.

Alleee: It seems that there’s a lot of different interpretations though, it’s really… I understand about experiencing…

Ray: It’s a big confused mess out there.

Alleee: Yeah, yeah, it really is, but…

Franc: That’s so true.

Alleee: It’s not Calvinism versus Pentecostals and stuff, it’s also Buddhism and Hinduism.

Ray: Uh-huh.

Alleee: And it’s like- if I read a Jack Chick tract, he has a definite message for me, but… I could be a Scientologist and just, it’s a matter of what I want to believe. And for me it’s like- I’m not really concerned with an afterlife I just…

Ray: You don’t like living?

Alleee: I love living, that’s the thing. I feel Christians don’t.

Aaron: [laughing] I don’t know about her, but I love living.

Alleee: I don’t like Christians…

Ray: Don’t you love your life?

Alleee: Oh, yes.

Ray: Don’t you ever think about death?

Alleee: I love life and I don’t love death because I can’t- okay, I’m sorry. Franc, did you have something to say?

Franc: Well, I absolutely agree with Ray, and I would like to ask you a philosophical question, if you don’t mind.

Ray: Sure.

Franc: What was it like to work with Kirk Cameron?

Alleee: [laughing]

Ray: Oh, I’ve worked with Kirk for about four years. We’re on the phone daily, he comes over for ministry once a week. We’ve done- we do a radio program together.

Franc: Wow.

Ray: We’re very close friends. And he’s genuine, he really is a nice guy. And… there’s nothing hypocritical about him, and I really appreciate his friendship.

Alleee: Oh, I totally believe he is, completely… honest.

Ray: He used to be an atheist.

Alleee: What’s that?

Aaron: He used to be- he used to be an atheist, I remember that in one of the videos that he talked about how he used to be an atheist but then- how old was he when he found Christ?

Ray: Uh, I think he was about seventeen or something, at the height of his career.

Aaron: Yeah, okay.

Ray: And you know the revelation he had? His revelation was, “Whoops, what if I’m wrong?” He loses everything, so he had the good sense to-

Alleee: Hmmm.

Franc: The good old wager.

Alleee: Yeah, that’s- that’s Pascal’s Wager. I think a lot of us have come across that one.

Ray: Well, I don’t think Pascal should hog onto that and get all the credit. I think it’s just common sense.

Alleee: Yeah.

Aaron: Yeah, why give Pascal all the credit?

Franc: So Ray- [laughing]

Alleee: But then we’ve dealt with this one, so let’s go ahead…

Franc: So Ray-

Aaron: Wait, I had another question I-

Franc: Oh.

Aaron: -that I was interested about. Categories-

Ray: Is this Aaron?

Aaron: Yeah, this is Aaron.

Ray: Okay.

Aaron: About what categories and definitions could you- if we’re going to agree that atheists don’t really exist, or we’ll just assume that yeah, atheists don’t know everything in the Universe, they can’t really exist because they can’t really make their claim and know it. And then you also said some Christians who- less than half of them or more than half of them- some of them aren’t really Christian, and some of them are, so for these people that claim to be atheists, but they’re not really atheists and these proportion that claim to be Christians, but they’re not really Christian, what are they? What ideological worldview or label do we assign them under? If an atheist isn’t really an atheist, is he a Christian?

Ray: He’s an agnostic. He doesn’t know.

Aaron: So- so agnostics can exist, but an atheist can’t exist?

Ray: Yeah, well agnostics- an agnostic is an atheist who’s come to the realization that he doesn’t know everything and he says, “With the limited knowledge I have at present I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no God, but I really don’t know because I don’t know everything.”

Aaron: [unintelligible]

Ray: And I would still contend with him and say, “You do know, you’re like a man who’s looking at a painting and saying, ‘I don’t know if there’s a painter.’ Common sense tells you that if there’s a painting, you have to have a painter. A building has to have a builder, and a Creation has to have a Creator.”

Aaron: Hmm. What-

Franc: That’s a very good point.

Aaron: Would the Christians that claim to be Christians, but aren’t really… would they be labeled agnostics or false Christians or…

Ray: They’d be called hypocrites or pretenders. Judas was one- Judas was one, he pretended really well for about three and a half years years and fooled all the other disciples, but he-

Franc: That rat bastard.

Ray: And a lot of people go to church and their lives don’t match what they profess.

Aaron: Only a Christian on Sunday kind of thing?

Ray: Yeah. Nobody likes that.

Alleee: Oh, I agree with that. I feel like we’re going really fast, but since we kinda have a short amount of time-

Franc: Yeah.

Alleee: I wanted to talk about something that has been-

Franc: No, I- first of all, before we talk about that, I have a second philosophical question for Ray.

Ray: Sure, Franc.

Franc: Ray, what do you think about coconuts?

Alleee: [laughing]

Ray: I think they’re wonderfully made. They’re a hard shelled drink and you can eat the layer around the drink, it’s incredible. This catch-all can float in the ocean, it’s heavy, it preserves the milk on the inside, it’s good for you, good for the body, and you can even use the outer crust to make…stuff. They’re incredible things that God created.

Franc: Truly a marvel of God’s design.

Ray: Yeah, thank you. I feel a bit better.

Alleee: So what do you think- The banana thing has been going around the Internet- I don’t know if you know this-

Ray: Well, the banana thing’s kinda tongue-in-cheek. Noone should really take it too seriously.

Alleee: Okay, so- I just wanted to- because there’s been a lot of talk- even like… Penn from “Penn and Teller” is talking about this. There’s been a lot of talk about this- the banana thing about how God made it so perfectly for humans but… the biggest- the most logical argument I’ve heard and actually made myself was that God didn’t make the banana. Because… it’s called horticulture.

Ray: Where does it come from?

Alleee: Well, man- the banana originally- well, I don’t know how originally it was, but the wild banana-

Franc: It’s called the…

Alleee: Plantain, right. Before the plantain, the banana was kind of hard and not very tasty and not- not what we have designed it to fit the hand better… bananas are big and plump and sweet because of what we have done-

Ray: The thing is, I wouldn’t let the banana thing worry you.

Aaron: [laughing]

Alleee: Well, I’m just saying that… there are very few plants- and we argue with some environmentalists a lot who- who don’t believe in bioengineered food- because most food that we eat of course is farmed and is… done through horticulture and we’ve engineered these fruits and vegetables to be more tasty to us. So actually, the banana seems to be not- not made by God at this point, it’s more like… what came first, the banana or the hand? You know? Man took the banana and made it better for man, rather than the other way…

Ray: Okay, you’ve got that one. You can have the banana.

Franc: [laughing] We win! We win!

Alleee: You’re fabulous, so…

Franc: We’ve won the banana!

Alleee: Although…

Aaron: But Franc you already conceded the point on the coconut, so now we’re 1 and 1.

Alleee: …you would think that… Jesus would’ve been able to get his hands on a banana, if it was… Poor Jesus, he never got to eat a banana properly. Unless the Mormons are right…

Franc: [laughing] Exactly.

Alleee: Well, I’m glad we got to talk about this, Ray.

Ray: I can see you’ve lost a lot of sleep over the banana.

Alleee: No… no, no, no. Really, we’ve enjoyed the banana.

Aaron: [laughing] I don’t know how aware you are of it, Ray, but the banana segment got really- got really popular on the Internet, especially in atheist circles too, and it was just a very interesting… very interesting thing, so…

Franc: It has had a big spike in exposure recently. I don’t know what happened.

Alleee: I think it was a very good thing to bring up and it’s a really interesting thing to discuss when we’re talking about evolution and design and… it’s a good thing that you brought it up.

Franc: And ladies and gentlemen, Ray Comfort has conceded, on the Hellbound Alleee show, Ray Comfort has conceded the banana.

Aaron: [laughing] What a flub!

Alleee: But he will not concede the Coke can.

Ray: You know what I’d like to know?

Franc: Okay?

Ray: Almost everything that we have in nature’s got a function. You can use apple peels, orange peels, all these fruits. What does the banana peel do? Has anyone ever tried to eat it?

Alleee: Well, there’s those that have tried to smoke it.

Ray: I tried that when I was seventeen. It didn’t work.

Alleee: No it doesn’t. I tried that when I was seventeen also.

Aaron: I have seen monkeys eat entire bananas with the peel.

Ray: Oh, really?

Aaron: That’s about the only thing I’ve ever seen them used for…

Alleee: No, no, no. I know. I know.

Franc: You slip on them.

Aaron: The only other thing I’ve seen banana peels do is get slipped on…

Alleee: Yeah, it’s from Buster Keaton movies.

Aaron: To- to aid in your getaway when someone’s chasing you…

Ray: Yeah, right.

Franc: The banana was made for comedy.

Aaron: What would the banana peel be good for, though?

Ray: I don’t know, but someone should see if it’s got any curative properties, cause everything in nature seems to have a real good purpose to it.

Alleee: Well, I don’t know if everything in nature…

Aaron: Everything in nature does have some kind of purpose, otherwise it wouldn’t…

Alleee: Well, Aaron now, nature is everything.

Ray: With an orange peel, you can use that in a cake… if you’ve ever squeezed orange peel and let it match as you squeeze it, you notice an acid comes out and it makes a good stain.

Aaron: Oh, that’s cool.

Alleee: You use the zest for candy and flavor, but I’m saying… everything in nature’s not that great. I mean… you have the AIDS virus…

Aaron: They all have purpose, and some of those purposes are bad, like for example, scorpion venom, has a pretty bad purpose. If you eat… yeah, I think… there’s a lot of plants out there that if you eat you’ll die pretty quickly. Like ninety-eight or ninety-five percent of all the world’s mushrooms are fatally poisonous.

Ray: Really?

Aaron: Yeah, the vast majority of mushrooms are poisonous to humans, it’s only a few select species that we can eat safely, and those are the ones that you find in the supermarket.

Alleee: You know, this is a very interesting discussion, and we don’t have very much more time, but I wanted to ask Ray, and this is something that I’ve tried to find out from old… the Australian guy…

Franc: Ken Ham?

Alleee: Ken Ham. How come… I assume you believe in Original Sin and the Fall and Adam and Eve and stuff?

Ray: Yeah.

Alleee: So how come… how come all these animals have… how come lions have claws, and how come scorpions have venom, and stuff like that?

Ray: Yeah, that’s a good question. What did Ken say about that?

Alleee: Okay, Ken said that God put inside of their DNA… sort of a fail-safe… sort of a mechanism that would be released when Adam and Eve fell. Meaning he knew that they were gonna fall and so automatically the DNA is released and eventually the lion would… I was just thinking that… the lion lying with the lamb, the lion in the Garden would look a lot like a lamb because a lion without claws and teeth wouldn’t really be a lion.

Ray: Yeah, well… I have no idea. For the answer to that question. No idea at all.

Alleee: Well, you have a right not to know everything, and obviously, neither do we.

Franc: Well, we have about one or two minutes left here.

Aaron: I can’t believe a half-hour went by so quickly.

Franc: Yeah.

Ray: Yes, but can I mention our website?

Alleee: Oh, absolutely.

Ray: At livingwaters.com there’s a thing that says “Are you a good person?” on it, that’s part of the Australian- we do that “good person” test-

Franc: Oh- oh, yeah. I forgot about that.

Alleee: That’s too bad we didn’t get to that.

Franc: Ray?

Ray: What?

Franc: Ray, have you ever told… the truth?

Ray: [laughing] That’s really well put. [laughing]

Franc: [laughing] No, go ahead and answer it! Have you ever told the truth?

Ray: [laughing] Good question. Yeah.

Franc and Alleee: What does that make you?

Ray: [laughing] It makes me… [laughing] …you guys are funny.

Aaron: [laughing] I’m a truther, too. I gotta confess.

Franc: We got you, Ray.

Alleee: We’re all truth-tellers as well as liars.

Franc: We got you, Ray, we got you.

Aaron: So… livingwaters.com and also thewayofthemaster.com? Is that…

Ray: Yeah, Kirk and I have got Way of the Master and I’ve got livingwaters.com.

Franc: Right.

Aaron: So everyone, everyone listening right now, go take that test at livingwaters.com and find out if you’re a good person or not.

Alleee: Well, I- I’d have to say I think Ray is a good person, no matter what our differences are, but he’s very pleasant to talk to and we’re really glad that you took time out to talk to us amateurs and-

Ray: Well, you’re very kind. I enjoyed it.

Franc: Thank you very much, Ray.

Ray: If I can send you anything- any books on the website, no charge, just let me know.

Franc: Right.

Alleee: Wow.

Ray: You guys write me at livingwaters.com- that’s you three guys, not…

Alleee: Right.

Franc: [laughing] Email him, everyone!

Aaron: Thank you, Ray.

Franc: Thank you very much, Ray Comfort, for being on the show.

Ray: Thank you for having me.

Franc: No problem. And we will be back after our intermission.